Dutch Names

[KateR]

This is WAAAY off topic, and I'll likely delete it soon, but I could use some advice from our Dutch members.

I'm working on genealogy (my OTHER hobby), and I have been trying to make sense of the names on my Dutch line going back to New Amsterdam. I think I finally figured out the pattern of first name - patronymic - last name - and in the case of immigrants the additional "van-wherever you came from".

But can you tell me if I got this right? Are girls always given a patronymic ending in "se" and boys in "sen" or does it work both ways?

Also, I have Willem as a boy's name and Willemken as a girl's name - does that sound right? Then what is Wilmetian? Boy or girl? Is it a nickname for Willem or Willemken, or a different name entirely?

I'm assuming that Jannetye is an alternate spelling for Janetje? Which one is preferred? And what about Janneken? Is it the same thing? A nickname?

Is it true that Neeltje is a nickname for Helen?

What about Machtelje and Elsken - are they nicknames for something else?

I think this family names children in order after the grandparents, which is a great clue, except that with all the nicknames and alternate spellings, it's hard to see the pattern!

Do Dutch names still work this way today, or have the patronymics mostly been dropped for just a first and last name?

Sorry to everyone for this interruption! Please feel free to skip it! But I thought it was the best way to reach a few people who might be able to offer advice.

Thanks so much!

Kate

[Annelies]

Hi Kate!

This is WAAAY off topic, and I'll likely delete it soon, but I could use some advice from our Dutch members.

But can you tell me if I got this right? Are girls always given a patronymic ending in "se" and boys in "sen" or does it work both ways?

Also, I have Willem as a boy's name and Willemken as a girl's name - does that sound right? Then what is Wilmetian? Boy or girl? Is it a nickname for Willem or Willemken, or a different name entirely?

I'm assuming that Jannetye is an alternate spelling for Janetje? Which one is preferred? And what about Janneken? Is it the same thing? A nickname?

Is it true that Neeltje is a nickname for Helen?

What about Machtelje and Elsken - are they nicknames for something else?

I think this family names children in order after the grandparents, which is a great clue, except that with all the nicknames and alternate spellings, it's hard to see the pattern!

Do Dutch names still work this way today, or have the patronymics mostly been dropped for just a first and last name?

Kate

Hi Kate,

I'm going to check this out for you cause I don't have an answer immediately on the first question only for the last I have an answer...

Patronymics aren't used anymore actually but you are right that families name there children after there parents or grandparents with a second or even third name...
For instance: Thijmen Jan Stevens or Caroline Johanna Helen de Jong.. (Just thought up names as example)..

Sometimes you see Patronymics back in the last name: Pieterssen, Janssen, etc...
Last names often stay the same unless people want to change it..

Going to dive into Duch history..you'll hear from me soon

[KateR]

Sometimes you see Patronymics back in the last name: Pieterssen, Janssen, etc...
Last names often stay the same unless people want to change it..

Going to dive into Duch history..you'll hear from me soon

Thanks, Lies!

We can chat by email, since it's so off topic, but I thought I'd post here initially in case other Dutch fans happened by.

I'm just trying to figure out the "rules" to keep the spelling consistent, for example when to use Janse or Jansen. And how to tell if some names are male or female.

I have a particular family line descended from Barent Driessen, who came to America in 1650 from Zutphen. I don't know if Driessen is a patronymic (is "Dries" a man's name?), but when he got here he sometimes used the name Van Driest and sometimes Van Zutphen. His son, Jan, was orphaned at age 7 in an Indian raid, and was taken in by Laurens Jansen, (whose father was clearly "Jan"), and the young orphan started to add Jansen to his name, which eventually became Johnson.

So... young Jan Barentsen Van Driest Van Zutphen Jansen eventually became "John Johnson." You see my dilemma!

Thanks for any help.

Kate

[Annelies]

I understand your dilemma completely!

I can explain Van Zutphen already. Maybe you figured it out also but that literally ment that he came from Zutphen.."from Zutphen" is the translation of "Van Zutphen" in the past it was used to let people know where they came from.. I'll mail you when I know more about the rest
It's fun to dive into!!

[Firefly74]

Kate,
That's really an interesting topic.
And I thought your last name was obviously German.
I always forget that it's different with Americans.
And you got your ancestors tracked down to 1650. That's amazing! I only 'know' my ancestry back to my great grandparents.
Great topic!

[KateR]

I can explain Van Zutphen already. Maybe you figured it out also but that literally ment that he came from Zutphen.."from Zutphen" is the translation of "Van Zutphen" in the past it was used to let people know where they came from.. I'll mail you when I know more about the rest
It's fun to dive into!!

Thanks, Lies. And thanks for your email. I'll be responding soon.

Yes, I did know the meaning of Van Zutphen. That's part of the reason I asked about patronymics, because I couldn't tell if Dutch people, as a rule, had last names at all in the 1600s. The "Van" names became common here, especially among the Dutch, who after a generation or two would use it as a last name and drop their real name or patronymic altogether. For a genealogist, that's helpful if you want to trace your ancestors back to the Olde Country, but once you get there, you don't know what surname to look for! I have one family line that was named Lubberdink, but when they came from a farm near Borculo to New Amsterdam, they took the name Van Borculo, and the family surname today is Barkelow - the "Lubberdink" is long gone.

(Interesting aside: the farm they came from still exists and is owned by another family which has turned the outbuildings into a bed & breakfast and has named it "Lubberdink" in honor of the owner 400 years ago. I so want to stay there!)

Kate,
That's really an interesting topic.
And I thought your last name was obviously German.
I always forget that it's different with Americans.
And you got your ancestors tracked down to 1650. That's amazing! I only 'know' my ancestry back to my great grandparents.
Great topic!

My last name is very definitely German. In fact, most of my ancestors were "Pennsylvania Dutch," which are really "Pennsylvania Deutsch" (German) and not Dutch at all. But as with most Americans who have ancestors going back to colonial days, we are "mutts" of all different nationalities. I have found this one very interesting Dutch line that goes back to New Amsterdam, and another English line that goes back to the Mayflower. The search is so much fun!

To try to get this at least a LITTLE BIT on topic, I had talked about genealogy with RDA one time. He has a family line that goes back to the Mayflower, too, and since there were only about 100 Pilgrims, his ancestor and mine would have most certainly known each other. When I told him that we both had ancestors who came on the same ship, he said, "I KNEW you looked familiar!"

I wish I could have gotten him more interested in genealogy. I would have loved to see him do a show like Who Do You Think You Are. History, travel, uncovering mysteries, wouldn't that have been perfect?

Kate